Tuesday, March 2, 2010

how to marry the man of your choice

i have been trying to read this book, but for me, it reeks of manipulation. i have been skimming and flipping back and forth between the pages and so far it seems to be a book of tricks. i could be missing something-i am totally willing to admit to the fact that i might not be open to these particular techniques.
an exerpt from chapter 8: "praising and criticizing the one you love", subsection labeled "your behavior can win his love(where they categorize different types of women such as the nag or the fan)". in this section we learn about "the bitch".
"think of the women you know who are most successful with men. these are the women who are demanding and complain to their men, but accept them nonetheless. you may think of these women as bitchy, but they have men flocking arond them, men you lost by being nice. sometimes you need to act bitchy to succeed with men. you may be too nice!"
it goes on to explain the difference between a nag and a bitch and how men rejecting "nice" women is akin to women going for the bad boys.
i hate this. i hate it even more because it is true.
i am not, by any stretch of the imagination, too "nice", but i hate the thought of purposely being a "bitch" in order to attract a man.
any thoughts? is this what i need to do? be a bitch? i want to hear what everyone has to say, but guys, please weigh in. wait. i need to be a bitch to get what i want out of a man. RESPOND NOW! ;-)


  1. That sounds like abject nonsense self-help writers write to make attitude-maladjusted girls feel better about themselves.

    The only reason highly desired girls are "bitches" is because they can get away with it. If you tell a Victoria Secret model off, she has a dozen guys ready to take your place.

    The 'natural man'- the fallen part of us - in women tend to seek after bad boys. I can give you studies on that, if you like. The fallen part of men is attracted to physical beauty and sexual enticement, but never bitchiness.

    Being a jerk at least make sense for a man - not that I recommend it. But it makes no sense for a woman, unless you plan on either being a nun, or batting for the other team.

  2. there are some of us who COULD get away with it, but dont. i just hate the games and manipulation that plays on the natural (wo)man. i am a nice person-i have been told i am pretty cute-not to mention smart and fun-why isnt that enough for a good man? why would i want to go against my own true nature to attract a man? i had one man tell me i was too "authentic" and that it was intimidating. whatever. i can be a bitch.i know how that works. i just dont want to operate that way.
    i am rambling(another part of my true nature), but you get what i am saying, right?

  3. I've been thinking about this, as I prepare to be single again. I want somebody who can hold her own, and who will fight for what she thinks is important, and who will say what needs saying even when it's uncomfortable. Some would call someone like that a bitch. I don't want someone who's so full of herself that she won't listen, or who is mean when she's angry, or who will use her power to get her way regardless of the price others will pay.

    I like nice and kind, and there are times that I need them. But I also like authentic. Everybody gets bitchy sometimes. When it's a bad day, it's a bad day. I don't want someone who's putting on a front for me, be that a nice front or a bitchy front. But I also don't want to be misled by someone who'd be quite good for me, but the front makes it hard to notice that.

    The book I'm reading on right now is Commitment, by Elizabeth Gilbert. Its subtitle is "A Skeptic Makes Peace With Marriage." I like her exploration of the expectations we bring to marriage, and how unrealistic they often are. She also points to different models and understanding of what marriage is and isn't, and how those have developed over time. I'm watching to see how Mormon expectations of marriage have developed alongside her analysis (she's not LDS) to see if I can find where we as a culture get off-track and maybe get some ideas about how we can get something that works better. I continue to believe that more divorces result from stupid choices made that lead to marriage than result from stupid choices made to divorce.

  4. commitment is actually on my reading list.i have about 2 or 3 books to get through first. i just finished eat,pray, love and surprised myself when i really enjoyed it. i agree that the lds culture is a breeding ground for stupid choices related to marriage. wasnt it President Kimball who said something along the lines of "a good marriage can be made between any two faithful latter day saints"? i think some have taken that sentiment and distorted it to the point that they dont look at obvious red flags that would clue them in to obvious incompatibilities.
    how are you feeling about becoming single? are you ready? i know its been a long road for you- 15 years, right? hope its going well and all those involved are transitioning well.

  5. I think I will go from Commitment to others of her books. I'm very impressed with her thus far. I saw her on Bonnie Hunt and it was really cool -- that's what led me to this point.

    I put together some thoughts about avoiding divorce that includes addressing Pres. Kimball's comments that you're talking about. He was addressing the idea from Saturday's Warrior that we all have a One True Mate from the pre-existence that we will have a blissful life with if only we can find them and marry them, and was countering that with "any two worthy people can make a marriage work." However, keep in mind that he was likely not sharing the idea that marriage is about finding someone who will always make you blissfully happy.

    I think I'm ready emotionally to be divorced. I'm not entirely certain about the world of single. Having social options open that currently aren't will be nice, and being married again will be nice, but I really don't know about the process from here to there, and then after. I've been considering writing about that process as I go through it either as a blog-thing or as a book (similar to Commitment, actually) or perhaps both. I am going from becoming the guy who knows all about divorce and courtship and relationships to the guy who is experiencing them after time away from them, and the fall is really not fun, for all that it's necessary.

    For now, it's seriously a money issue to get the filing done. Hopefully, tax season will be nice to me one more time and I can get it done by Summer.

  6. Do you really want a guy that is attracted to that type of behavior? I'm attracted to nice. A friendly smile, easy conversation.

  7. anon-tall girls with blue eyes, are you attracted to that? ;) lol
    i seem to have no problem ATTRACTING men, its the follow through. just wondering if i flipped on the bitch switch and became high maintenance if that wouldnt spice things up and keep the attention.
    it comes down to games and i could be a major starter,but i would fizzle out before half time(sorry, i know a weak sports metaphor). i just dont have it in me to play the games. i get irritated and pissed off.
    blain-i saw elizabeth on oprah and was completely unimpressed-i swore not to read her book because she just seemed so annoying to me. then i saw her on bonnie-talking about her new book-and was very impressed. i am excited to read commitment-i think she has some great thoughts about marriage. we should do a cyber book club!

  8. Since you asked (not me, but, well, you asked), my preference combination is short, blonde and cute, with quite a bit of tolerance along the way (and I'm tall enough that "short" can extend to average height). My mom was 5'10" and didn't like the short preference, since she didn't like dancing with short guys. None is really a deal breaker.

    I have no desire to be a game player, but I'm guessing there still needs to be some strategy involved. I think that's just considerate -- starting out with "I think I'd lke to marry you" is a bit intense, especially with a stranger. Getting past the tinglies without saying something really stupid is something I'm hoping to accomplish.

    I don't do Oprah, so I wouldn't know. Bonnie rocks my planet, and I was definitely impressed there. Book club? Never done anything like that. I could set something up on my home-blog -- a post per chapter, with room for comments below? I could invite any interested FB friends to see if anybody else wants to play.

  9. arghhhhh- tall guys wanting the short girls! so annoying. ;-)
    let me know if you decide to set it up. i would love to participate.

  10. It's a trade-off for girls who like guys who are flagrant jerks.

    I'll see about it when I'm done with the weekend -- this is a pretty heavy weekend.

  11. blain-imagine me wrinkling up my nose and sticking my tongue out at you. i know, mature.
    i have met many a nice guy who complains and laments how girls overlook them for the jerks of this world. its all too common, but i am not one of them. i get lost in that shuffle though and i hate it. i have dated(and married)the "cool" bad boys and i have also dated my share of av dept type nerds. i just love men and though i have a type(really tall, dark hair, funny), i constantly break it. msof was my height and blonder than blonde. i am more than willing to break type for a good man. i joke that if the "right" guy was 5'4" i wouldnt care. i hope i dont get tested on that,but...

  12. blain- if you decide to do the "book club" will you please send me the link to your blog? i think i had it bookmarked previously, but due to some freak computer thingy i no longer have it.

  13. Well, see, that's the thing about preferences -- they only go so far. I just watched "When in Rome" with my son, and loved it. Kristen Bell is very short, reasonably blonde and very cute, and also very sharp and with amazing comic timing. She's very fun to watch for me (son agrees also).

    But there's no future there, and there wouldn't be even if she wasn't engaged to the guy who kept taking off his shirt in the film. I'm more likely to be with somebody who is closer to my age, possibly closer to my height, and probably has not done any professional modeling, with hair color really not meaning all that much.

    I'm really all about the connection, and interesting conversations that stay interesting. There are some other criteria, but they have a lot more to do with going in similar directions -- nothing makes someone more attractive than loving them and being loved back.

    The book club thing might be going forward with multiple books. A friend on FB wants to start some kind of Jane Austen book club, so I'm going to offer to do them all through my home-blog (blainn.com). But I need to see what other folks have done with WP-based book clubs for tips and tricks. Might have time to look into some of that tonight.

  14. Don't know what I'm doing here ... I'm not LDS, I'm happily married and haven't read the book you're talking about BUT here goes anyway. If I was advising a close friend, I would tell her that she didn't want a man who wanted either a bitch, or a doormat. That both kinds of men are just insecure, but in different ways. And that a man who will put up with a bitch because of her looks has messed up values. And that you can't be or date a game player if marriage is your objective, because it's really hard to play hard to get once you're married. BUT I would want her to find a man who would choose a woman who was confident, had opinions and was willing to voice them, could say what she wanted and could even good naturedly disagree with or challenge her man over one who was just a "yes-woman," "whatever you want, honey" etc. I don't think that the first type of woman is a bitch (although maybe some do); I do think that some women are too nice. Best of luck to you. I was single for a long time too. (BTW, I came to your blog through "7th Heaven," and I first saw that blog through "mckmama.")

  15. thanks karen! it all seems to be complicated games that i am unwilling to deal with. hopefully there is a like minded man out there!