ok. i need answers. i am not looking to rat you out to your bishop or anything, so please answer honestly and post to the comment section(anonymously of course). please spread the word, i would love to have a ton of feedback on this topic.
1. chick or dude?
2. age
3. marital status?
for the singles:
4. do you currently follow the law of chastity?(just so we are all on the same page, the law of chastity,if you are single, means no sex of any kind. no petting. heavy or light. no masturbation.)
5. do you bend, twist, or otherwise modify the loc to suit your lifestyle?
6. if yes, is there any guilt?
7. if the church modified or phased out the loc, would you have sex before marriage?
8. have you previously played loosey goosey with the loc? did you simply stop and "sin no more" or did you clear things up with the proper priesthood authority?
9. if you are committed to living a chaste life, do the people you date try to influence you to do otherwise?
10. if you play loosey goosey with the loc, do you see someone who follows the loc as a "challenge" and test their limits?
i have more that will address the married and divorced folk. PLEASE comment! i want to hear what everyone has to say.
1. Girl
ReplyDelete2. 23
3. Married
I could answer these questions for when I was single, but I guess I'll wait for the married questions?
1. female
ReplyDelete2. 34
3. single never married
4. yes
5. no
6.
7. no
8. no
9. no
10. no
1. Female
ReplyDelete2. 40
3. Married
1. female
ReplyDelete2. 29
3. Single, never married
4. yes
5. no
6.
7. no
8. no
9. no
10.no
1. Female
ReplyDelete2. 34
3. Married but separated
4-10. Will be a good girl once I start dating
I personally don't think masturbation in and of itself is that big of a deal -- not that I'm encouraging it, and the brethern have been pretty clear -- but if porn or another person is involved somehow then I consider it a more serious issue.
thanks for the comments so far-its actually inspired a few more questions that i will add in the next installment.
ReplyDeletegirl, 29
ReplyDeletenever married
4. i try, but masturbation and heavy petting do occur
5. I bend it a little but there is guilt, maybe not while i'm bending it but after
7. I don't think so but I would definitely wait until it was a serious relationship if I did.
8. I get it cleared up with my Bishop, I couldn't attend certain things without knowing I got it cleared up the right way.
9 & 10. Guys influence me all the time. If I'm not wanting a real relationship I might go farther cause its a chase but the guy I reall ylike I try really hard to be good with. I know that sounds like a double standard but its true. On the otherhand the guy I really like once it does get more serious and physical it is harder to be good whereas with the "fling" I'm pretty good at drawing a line even if its pass the line I should have drawn. Hope this helps your survey.
It also depends on my "mood" about how good I am, bad I know, but I am human. I also find when you are with a good guy they try to encourage you to be good cause they care about you.
ReplyDelete1. chick
ReplyDelete2. 2
3. single. very single.
for the singles:
4. no
5. yes
6. only when I go past a certain point. But I don't feel guilty for masturbation, petting, touching and all that child play. For me, those are necessary so I DON'T have sex anymore before marriage.
7. The church is never changing. That was a dumb question. The church does not control my life, you will always have free agency.
8. yes and yes. but then yes I did again.
9. always. men are pigs mormon or not.
10. I'll be honest, sometimes.
1. Female
ReplyDelete2. 29
3. Single
4. Yes I follow it.
5. No, The standard is clear, though I might make mistakes at times.
6. N/A
7. Yes absolutely.
8. Yes on both questions, nothing too serious, all cleared up with the bishop immediately after it happened.
9. Yes! I hate it because I'm weak.
10. I don't think I play loosey goosey but sometimes (as noted above) I've messed up. I do see it as a MAJOR challenge. Anyone who says otherwise is delusional.
1. girl
ReplyDelete2. 20
3. single
4. no
5. i have in the past
6. yes
7. yes, i wouldnt have a reason strong enough stopping me
8. yes and after several years of progression and hitting the bottom I cleared things up
9. they push the limits
10. yes i have
1 Male
ReplyDelete2 32
3 divorced 8 years, single dad
4 yes
5 no
6 anytime I have slipped somewhat, yes
7 no, i have a testimony of it, but then, this is not being said in the heat of the moment either.
8 anything that (rarely) has needed clearing up, I have talked with the Bishop about.
9 That presupposes the fact I could get a date if my life depended on it, doesn't it? ;)
10 N/A
Re: first comment on Nov 3
ReplyDelete"men are pigs mormon or not."
This is what we call a myoptic point of view.
True? yes, but the actual statistics might shock you as to which gender has what problems.
All mankind is fallen - let's not play the blame game.
1. chick
ReplyDelete2. 32
3. single
4. Yes, although temptations hit me at every turn and I'm very far from perfect. You know what they say about once you've had it, it's really hard to go without . . so true - especially around ovulation. Stupid hormones telling me to get pregnant.
5. Not currently, although I have in the past but that was years ago and I like to think I've grown out of that stage.
6. There's always guilt and even though I've been through all of the proper channels for past transgressions, the guilt still lingers.
7. Been there done that, and when the relationship ended it hurt like HELL. Seriously, the darkest phase of my life. But that begs the question, did it hurt so much because it ended and he broke my heart or did it hurt because I knew what I was doing was wrong and was thus feeling guilty for my sins making it hurt worse than a simple breakup should have? So with that, I'm going to say no.
8. hhmm . . guess I already answered this one, but I'll say it again. I was in a previous relationship where the LOC went out the window. The relationship was a long term one so it was more than an accidental "slip up" and I did go to my Bishop a few months after it ended.
9. I have dated many men who were not LDS and continue to do so. They have frequently tried to influence me and to convince me that it's not a big deal. And unfortunately I was stupid and fell for it. But never again, I tell you!
10. Okay, being totally honest, I do find it funny to tease people but after being pressured myself, I would never let it go that far again. I know that I don't want to deal with that kind of pain, so I'd prefer someone else that I care about to not have to either.
TMI? I tend to have diarrhea of the mouth that comes out through my fingers. I apologize if this is way more than you wanted to know.
not tmi! i love your honesty. thanks for sharing.
ReplyDelete1. chick
ReplyDelete2. 26
3. single
4. Yes.
5. No. I hadn't thought of anything as "twisting" the law of chastity; you either break it to some greater or lesser degree, or you live it. But I suppose some people break the law of chastity only in some ways, or under certain conditions...I guess that's what is meant here.
6. n/a now, but when I used to, there certainly was. See #8.
7. That's a really freaky hypothetical question; why would the Church ever do that? But never mind that. Let me put it this way: even if I stopped believing that the Church were true, I would still believe that the Law of Chastity is a good idea. But I might be more easily persuaded to live contrary to it...so under certain conditions, I'd probably cave completely. Thank goodness the Law stands, so that doesn't happen.
8. I have broken the Law of Chastity over two spans of time in the past. The first was a masturbation habit through my teenage years; it was resolved with the bishop two years before my mission. The second was recurring making out and nearly-petting sessions with a certain guy over the past two years. That was resolved through bishop's authority several times before the cycle finally died.
9. That guy I used to spend a lot of time around influenced me to break the Law of Chastity. He believed the Law of Chastity was a true principle, but he was tempted when I was around, and so he led me into trouble. We decided not to spend time together anymore. The only other guy who factors in as a guy-I-dated influence was my ex-boyfriend. He was a good pro-Law-of-Chastity influence.
10. n/a
1. Girl
ReplyDelete2. 19
3. Single. Kind of. My boyfriend's on a mission, but he hasnt been gone long, so I'll apply these questions to when he was here.
for the singles:
4. do you currently follow the law of chastity? I do.
5. do you bend, twist, or otherwise modify the loc to suit your lifestyle? uhh, yes. We made out way too much, in beds, fields, parks, in public, whenever. But clothes were never taken off, and hands never went anywhere they weren't supposed to be.
6. if yes, is there any guilt? mm, a little, sometimes, when we knew we'd toed that line.
7. if the church modified or phased out the loc, would you have sex before marriage? I wouldn't believe in the gospel anymore if something like that happened, so yes, probably.
8. have you previously played loosey goosey with the loc? did you simply stop and "sin no more" or did you clear things up with the proper priesthood authority? depends on if hot hot kissing sessions are defined as loosey goosey, because thats the worst we did, but I never felt I needed to go to my Bishop about it. We just said we needed to try harder to be better.
9. if you are committed to living a chaste life, do the people you date try to influence you to do otherwise? Occassionally he did, yes.
10. if you play loosey goosey with the loc, do you see someone who follows the loc as a "challenge" and test their limits? Occassionally I did, yes. My mood was a big deciding factor, my will to be perfect went up and down like a yoyo.
1. chick or dude? Chick
ReplyDelete2. age: 25
3. marital status? Single
for the singles:
4. do you currently follow the law of chastity?(just so we are all on the same page, the law of chastity,if you are single, means no sex of any kind. no petting. heavy or light. no masturbation.)everything but actual sex
5. do you bend, twist, or otherwise modify the loc to suit your lifestyle? Yes
6. if yes, is there any guilt? A little
7. if the church modified or phased out the loc, would you have sex before marriage? YES
8. have you previously played loosey goosey with the loc? did you simply stop and "sin no more" or did you clear things up with the proper priesthood authority? Just SNM
9. if you are committed to living a chaste life, do the people you date try to influence you to do otherwise? No
10. if you play loosey goosey with the loc, do you see someone who follows the loc as a "challenge" and test their limits? No
I think all of us have a boundary that we feel it would be inappropriate to cross. Women tend to set that boundary further to the left; men set it further to the right.
ReplyDeleteI think someday we will see the temple covenant reframed as the Law against Adultery; a wave of divorced people leaving the church will eventually lead to a recognition that people who have been sexually active for decades are not easily bottled up. Compromises are already being made on a case-by-case basis.
My bishop and I had a bit of a negotiation when I started dating -- he said he would give me breasts if I stayed active and didn't cause problems for women south of the border. But none of the women I've dated have been quite as liberated as my bishop and I are . . . but I'm hoping to meet one someday.
I think you might want to think about LOC as a continuum, rather than a binary event, especially if you are trying to figure out a way to keep divorced men in the LDS church. Every time a woman scolds an LDS man for wanting more than she is willing to give, an LDS man simply signs up on match.com and dates non-members and we don't see them for a few years, if ever.
I think the activity rate for divorced LDS men is 4% now, while the activity rate for divorced LDS women is about 20%. I agree with you that the LOC is important, but if you define it as no breasts, no sleeping together (without sex), no petting, no lap dances, no masturbation, no mutural masturbation, no phone/cyber sex you are going to push even more men out of the church. Most women and their married men supporters would say good riddance to bad rubbish, but that's not going to help smart vibrant young woman like you remarry good LDS men someday.
I support your project 100%, but think you should work harder to see the male side of this. We are not all horny bastards with no ethical code -- we are seriously trying to keep our recommends and our sanity. The rules are being constructed for divorced men by married men and single women; we're not part of the discussion. Your blog shows far more empathy for your GBFs choices than for Joe Shmoe and Jack Mormon's choices. I think you're doing great work at figuring out an incomprehensible Gordian knot, but I think that you are condemning me and my tribe of divorced men to expulsion from a Church that we love.
I haven't phrased this as elegantly as you are able to do. Main point is that the church does not go into married bedrooms, so they have absolutely no desire to go into divorced bedrooms either, and that's appropriate. We teach them correct principles (no adultery, moderation in all things, etc.) and let them govern themselves. There will never be a chastity police force in the LDS church -- the Taliban tried it and it didn't work out so well for them.
mr anon: i think you were pretty well spoken and i see what you are saying...kind of. i giggled a little when you told me you negotiated breasts with your bishop. so-if i understand you correctly, you can touch a womans breasts(that you are not married to)and still keep your recommend? sigh. does that really work for you? i am surprised that touching in that manner doesnt send you into the red zone faster as opposed to keeping all your desires reigned in. we are all different and have different thresholds of "pain". lol. one of my favorite commentators chastised me for saying that i thought a man touching the small of my back under my shirt was sexy. he told me that was playing with dynamite. i guess it is for him. i think if i liked/loved a man and he was touching my breasts while we were making out, i would hit the red zone pretty fast and the loc would be a faint memory. my brother(who is in the bishopric)says the church is in the business of saving souls, not condemning them. maybe your bishop felt inspired to make this deal with you, knowing your heart and knowing you would be a man of your word. i wonder if your bishop would have the same generosity with a single sister. i doubt he would be as liberal with a woman sitting across from him negotiating where she could be touched and still be considered keeping the loc and her temple rec. i know many think i am so strict, yet i know of others who would judge me for my willingness to participate in horizontal make outs or candid sexual conversations.
ReplyDeletewhat exactly do you mean by "problems south of the border?" i dont understand leaving a church that you(the collective you)love because you cant get laid and stay in good standing. its always been one of the big commandments, why should it change because we got divorced? i know i am rambling, sorry for that, but sometimes that is how this sex deprived mind works. ;)
I just wanted to let you know that as a man who has had loc problems in the past, I sincerely agree with your viewpoint nevertheless.
Delete:)
DeleteWell, this is ancient now, but as a single 25 year old male who HAS had loc problems before, I find Anon's comment above incredibly blind and hardhearted. If someone has a loc problem, it is better to continue trying to serve and go to church than to abandon things, but its important that we're striving for perfection. Our individual needs and weaknesses is always subject to change, but the path that we have to follow doesn't. If that man's bishop let him keep his recommend with his "breasts" policy, I am appalled.
ReplyDeleteI can say from personal experience that all of the things he listed as things you can't take away from a man will destroy your soul.
abon-thanks for reading my ancient posts and commenting! thank you for your honesty. i was stunned by the breast negotiation too, but i have heard others(usually men)make similar comments.
ReplyDelete